In a galaxy far far away back in the 1970's and 1980's, Ray D'Ariano and Leon Tsilis met at a party thrown by Leon Russell in Memphis. They were both young record promotion men who would go on to become music biz executives. During that time they worked with and contributed to the success of The Who, Cher, Kiss, Tanya Tucker, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Golden Earring, Olivia Newton John, The Village People, Loretta Lynn, The Fixx, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, The Oak Ridge Boys, Wishbone Ash, Neil Sedaka, Merle Haggard, Chubby Checker, Elton John and many more. For the first time in over 30 years of friendship they are telling the tales and spilling their guts.

Volume 1: Don't Let Your Meatloaf
Volume 2: You Better You Bet

Volume 2: You Better You Bet

Ray: Hey Mike Myers is going to play Keith Moon in a feature film about him. I think Daltrey is the producer or something.

Leon: Mike Myers eh? I don't know about that. Anyone who plays Keith needs to be mentally unbalanced. As crazy as Mike is, Keith was the king of being over the top nuts.

R: How about Mick Foley? I once produced a commercial for a Roger Daltrey solo LP and Keith was the announcer. We had a fine day. Commercial came out pretty good too. This time out I think we should talk about our adventure with The Who.

L: Ok, but I wanted to first mention to you that I got a call from Roger Filgate, remember him?

R: Do I owe him money?

L: Maybe, but he didn't mention it. He played for a while with Wishbone Ash. That time you met me in Connecticut; he was playing with the band.

R: Ok, I remember that night.

L: Well he just played on a new record with Chubby Checker. Can you believe it?

R: Chubby is like that energizer bunny. He just keeps on going. When was our Chubby project, late 70's, early 80's?

L: 1981 to be exact. The record, 'The Change Has Come', was released in 1982.

Chubby Checker

R: I got a call from Tony DeLuro who had a 3 or 4 song demo on Chubby. To be honest I wasn't that excited about the call, but I knew Tony so I owed him the courtesy of a meeting, and also at that time Gary U.S. Bonds had a comeback hit with "This Little Girl.' So I agreed to listen to the tape. Interesting thing is today Tony manages Gary.

L: Yeah, but you were knocked out with the demo tape, right?

R: No, but I was surprised. It was a lot better than I thought it would be. So I sent it on to you for your opinion.

L: When the tape first arrived I thought that you had gone off the deep end. Chubby Checker? This guy hadn't had a hit since the 60's.

R: Yeah, well like I said Gary U.S. Bonds had a comeback at the time, and we had had a lot of success with Neil Sedaka's comeback a few years earlier. Speaking of which I heard the slow version of "Breaking Up Is Hard To Do" today on the radio. First time I've heard that since we made it a hit. I didn't know it was Neil. It sounded like a chick.

L: Yeah, I know what you mean about sounding like a chick. I recently heard "Laughter in The Rain" by Lea Roberts and thought it was Neil. We had the hit with that record, but Lea had a great cover version out at the same time.

R: But I love Neil and we all had a lot of fun with his comeback. Anyway, back to Chubby. I told you how I came upon the tape. I wasn't knocked out, but I heard something so I sent it to you just to make sure. It would have been easy to just turn it down, but I gave it the benefit of the doubt.

L: I was beginning to wonder about your ears.

R: Thanks.

L: But this was all before I listened to the tape. I could not believe what I was hearing. This stuff was amazing and very contemporary with what was being played on the MOR stations at the time. In other words, I was blown away.

R: So what happened?

L: Well, one thing led to another and we signed Chubby to a U.S. and Canadian deal. The rest of the world was left open for his management to pursue. It was not for a lot of money, I believe around $75,000, but it did cover all the recording costs. We recorded the album in Los Angeles at the Music Grinder with Evan Pace producing. The finished result was unbelievable.

R: I thought the finished album was great, but the first single "Running" was a masterpiece and a smash.

Listen: Running - Chubby Checker

L: I remember taking finished tracks back to the main MCA offices in LA and playing them for staff member to hear and watch their jaws drop. The songs "Running" and "Harder then Diamond" convinced the staff that we had a hit album on our hands. In other words, there was some real excitement in the air at MCA. Who would have thought that it would be a Chubby Checker album that would do it?

R: I was in New York City at the time and I knew WABC wouldn't play it until it was a proven hit around the country so I brought it to Scott Muni at WNEW-FM and he added it to the station. Then Dave Herman, the morning man, got behind it and played it every day. Next thing you know I had Chubby Checker live from The Bottom Line on WNEW-FM. This was in 1982, and this 60's, pre-Beatles, pioneer gave one of the greatest rock concerts in the history of the station live. He was happening again in New York, but there were problems at headquarters in L.A.

L: The problems with the MCA brass, Gene Frolich to be specific, occurred a little down the road. I will go into greater detail later on.

R: Gene! I love that guy. He gave me such a hard time. I don't think he liked me, but I was VP in New York and the company's headquarters was in L.A., and I don't think he thought they needed an exec in New York. Bob Siner, the president did; before him Mike Maitland had George Lee in New York, but I don't think Gene saw the need even though a lot of the managers of our acts were based here and artists like Elton were always in and out of town, but what could I do? That was my gig. Too bad if he didn't like it.

L: Like you? He loved you! He called you every morning just to chat and catch up on old times. Breakfast with Gene. Hey it could have been worse. You could have been having Breakfast with Run DMC every morning. Bullets and Bagels.

R: He was the executive at MCA who turned the commissary on the movie lot around. So the powers in charge decided if he could turn the lunchroom around he was the man to run the music division. (Laughs) He was a straight-laced businessman, uptight, and no sense of humor in my opinion. Remember I had just worked for Neil Bogart at Casablanca. He was one of the most outrageous, colorful, and creative record guys who ever lived. We had Kiss; we had The Village People. It was total razzle-dazzle. To me it was like working at Ringling Brothers Circus and then working at the Public Library. Gene didn't make it pleasant.

L: To be fair, he was sent to MCA Records as the watchdog of the label. A bean counter with some serious clout. You had him on the phone in the morning. I had him live and in living color every day. I sort of have mixed emotions about him as he never got in my face and treated me with respect. I heard he went on to sell Life insurance or something after he was let go from MCA.

R: Anyway, back to Chubby, Wasn't there some incident at The Country Club?

L: MCA took over the Country Club for one night to re-introduce Chubby to the media and press in a special invite only concert.

R: Yeah, well that's what we kinda did at The Bottom Line, but we had a live radio broadcast to boot.

L: It was an amazing night as Chubby and his band played to a full house. He received many standing ovations that evening, but when the band broke into the Twist everyone in the audience went nuts and was dancing their asses off. One thing for sure, Chubby was even more an entertainer today then he ever was. After the show, Gene Frolic was very upset that Chubby did not look contemporary enough in his Vegas style jump suit and got into it with Tony about how Chubb's should dress on stage.

R: Show biz fashion tips (laughs) if anyone should know what an artist should wear on stage it was Gene.

L: This led to a minor confrontation that should never have appeared in a public setting, especially after such a rousing show.

R: I saw the guy do a similar thing in New York. Donnie Iris and his band kicked ass. They did an amazing show. Gene goes backstage, the band is covered in sweat, and he reads them the riot act because he didn't like something. I guess he handled people making sandwiches better than creative artists because he did not have the same success in the music division.

L: In order to appease Gene and continue his comeback, Chubby chose to wear jeans & designer shirts the next weekend when he appeared on the now defunct "Friday's" TV show.

R: Larry David and Michael Richards were on that show. It was ABC's version of Saturday Night Live.

L: From that appearance alone Chubby was becoming a hot property again and his first single was starting to garner airplay and was on its way to becoming a hit.

R: So then why did the company kill Chubby's comeback and a hit record?

L: Oh boy, now were getting into a can of worms. It all goes back to the original recording contract. MCA only signed Chubby to a US and Canadian deal. Well, the brass, Gene Frolic, now wanted the record released world wide for no additional payment to the artists. They figured that since we had paid for the recording, we owned it and should be able to release it anywhere in the world. Only problem was that the contract stated other wise. Tony, in the best interest of his artist, argued that if the label wanted to release the record world wide that his artist should be paid accordingly.

R: That's why they call it the music business.

L: MCA did not see it that way and soon an impasse was reached between the two warring parties over this issue. Neither side was going to give in and Chubby was finished at MCA. And you thought politics were only played in Washington!

R: Anyway around that time we also signed The Catholic Girls. Now how they were signed is a funny story and three of us from the site here were involved with that one. Brian, the art director brought me a tape and a photo of the girls in their little Catholic schoolgirl uniforms. I loved how they looked, but didn't hear the music. It wasn't my cup of tea, but one morning I was talking to you on the phone and I didn't realize it, but I was doodling and writing your name all over their picture. When I hung up the phone I saw the results of my unconscious scribbling. As a joke I sent you the tape and the photo with a note saying, here's a group with your name all over them.

L: Yeah, well, to be exact, the scribbling you did was on an old NWA picture of Rick Flair.

R: That makes absolutely no sense to me. (Laughs) Why would I write here's a group that has your name all over it if it was Ric Flair? All I can say is one of us is wrong on the memory of this one, but it was 30 years ago and there may have been some substances in our bloodstreams. I don't know, it was a long time ago. So I'll go with your story. I sent you a picture of Ric Flair with your name written on it and, then what, you signed The Catholic Girls?

L: (laughs) You sure did and I still have the picture around her to prove it. When the package arrived I put it aside so I could give it a good listening to over the weekend. By Monday morning I was sold. Not the most polished band I ever heard, but there was something there that titillated my musical senses.

R: Yeah, the photo of these hot babes in little schoolgirl costumes.

L: More than that, Gail Peterson was a first class songwriter, no doubt about it. Not the best vocalist I ever heard, but good enough to enter the then emerging new wave movement for sure.

R: She always reminded me of Buffy St. Marie.

L: Yeah, well you admitted to the substance problem.

R: I never thought it was a problem (laughs) it was more of the music business lifestyle. The daily cycle was brutal. You'd be out until one or two bringing radio people to see an act or at a recording studio then you'd be in the office by 9 the next morning and so it was coffee till lunch. Then you'd take a radio guy to lunch and he'd be drinking scotch so you had a wine or two to be sociable and also to take away the edge from all the AM caffeine. Then back to the office and around four you'd get sleepy from the wine so a little afternoon caffeine and then it was time to meet a manager for drinks. Then take some radio people to dinner, more drinks, and then the Bottom Line to see Johnny Cougar and everything that went with that and all of a sudden its two AM again and its only Tuesday, but problem? I had no problem.

L: (laughs) And you're not talking about being out on the road with a tour.

R: That's a whole other trip. I'm talking about just an average normal week. Then you'd hit the office and Gene would be calling from L.A. where it must have been five AM, and he wants to know why Olivia Newton John wasn't being played on WPLJ.

L: They were an album rock station!

R: (laughs) He didn't care about that.

L: Anyway, The Catholic Girls; the concept was solid; the look was fresh and the music, when produced properly, would lead to a solid album. Too much acclaim the record was released and as usual MCA dropped the ball.

R: How do you think?

L: The brass at the label did not realize the emergence of MTV as a driving force in breaking new bands. They just didn't want to spend the money on a first class video.

R: Which was insane because they had the entire Universal Picture studio at their disposal.

L: We had the goods, four young girls in Catholic Girl uniforms with guitars singing their hearts out, but no video to showcase their talent. You would have had to be a complete moron at that time not to realize the power of MTV. Take a look at what Miles Copeland and IRS Records did to promote the Go Go's. Their video was on the tube all the time and they sold millions of records, but MCA's approach to promotion was still rooted back in the sixties.

R: I quit, for the second time, after Elton's show in the park. He was going to Geffen. Two friends of mine, Ronnie Van Zant, and Keith Moon had died. Gene was in charge, and I had enough.

L: When the going gets tough the wimps bail out.

R: I hung in about a year longer than I should have. It was just one great artist or group after another getting destroyed. It was pathetic.

L: Another great artist we had on the label around that time was Joe Ely.

R: Saw him for the first time at the Lone Star Café. He tore the place up.

L: I don't know if you remember this, but back in the 90's you told me about a Joe Ely album called 'Love and Danger."

R: I love that album.

L: Yeah, well back then I bought it on cassette and I used to play it in my car, but I forgot about it and I recently found the cassette, and it is still great!

R: Fantastic album."Settle For Love" should have been a smash hit single. That album and song can be a hit today. Sounds like they were recorded last week. Somebody should cut "Settle For Love". I'll tell you what, if you are a young country artist or group reading this, go to Amazon, and buy this CD. You can probably get one for a few bucks, and go out and record this song. This can be a number one for someone.

Listen: Settle For Love - Joe Ely

Joe Ely

L: Joe Ely was brought to MCA by then president of the Country Division, Jack Parker. Jack was a good ol' boy from Texas with some great ears when it came to Country music. Joe was Jack's first signing to the label and it really upset a lot of the country artists on the label at the time. See, Joe was anything but a traditional country artist and they believed that this trend would lead to the demise and credibility of MCA.

R: Jerry Jeff Walker was on MCA before Joe Ely. What were they thinking?

L: The A&R department in LA signed Jerry Jeff and MCA Nashville ignored him. To them he was not cut from the same cloth as the traditional country artists at the time. What a bunch of buffoons the Nashville crowd were at the time. The leader of the pack was one Conway Twitty. Jack and Conway did not see eye to eye as Jack wanted to take Nashville into a more contemporary direction. Remember this was long before the Urban Cowboy phenomenon. The artists eventually forced Jack out and he was replaced by Jim Fogelsong when MCA purchased ABC Records. Too bad, Parker was a hell of a guy with great ears and an eye on the future.

R: When did Joe do his first MCA LP?

L: Jack brought Joe to Nashville to record his first album sometime in 1977. The album was produced by and at Chip Young's studios outside of Nashville. I remember going to the studio a lot with Jack and Kelly DeLaney (MCA Country Publicity) to hear the album as it progressed. Not being a big country fan at the time, I was totally blown away by what was coming through the studio's speakers. This was the future of country music and we had it, but the folks who ran the Nashville music scene would have nothing to do with it. Boy were they wrong in their backward thinking, and its still being proven today. If you should ever happen to run into Joe again, be sure to ask him about the time I took him and the band to the Nashville Fairgrounds for the Wednesday night Rasslin' Matches. It was a Hoot.

R: Sure, we have tacos every Thursday. I'll be sure to send your regards.

L: (laughs) All record companies had a lot of great stuff that never saw the light of day. You remember a group we had called Wrabbit?

R: Vaguely, yeah.

L: The guy who drew Bugs Bunny came up with a crazy rabbit illustration for their cover.

R: I do remember that.

L: Anyway, I recently found a cassette of their first album. Amazing! It kills me to know how much great stuff the company let go by the wayside. Wrabbit was a fuckin' great band from Canada!

R: Imagine how they feel. Look you need the push from the top, or at least back then you did, without it your project went nowhere, but every record company let great stuff slip through the cracks.

L: There was always a rivalry between the divisions at MCA. If the Brass in Canada brought in a project, no matter how great it was, you could be sure that it would be killed in the USA. Wrabbit had hit after hit in Canada, but the promotion staff in the US couldn't get arrested with the record.

R: If I signed anything out of New York it got killed in L.A. Remember Sid Bernstein's band, Critical Mass, for example?

L: I will go on record now as saying, when you and I left the MCA Promotion ranks, it all went to shit. We knew how to break and spread records, the new blood that took over only knew on thing, "Pay off the Indie Promoters to get the Record Played." The MCA Promotion staff was turned into go-fers and babysitters.

R: Well, pay off? They were hired to get the records played. That's what you had to do in that era. Books have been written on the subject. Fortunately for me, my career in promotion was over by then, but I can't knock them for hiring Indies, the problem was even with the extra help they had no hits. Didn't it drive you crazy when you brought in or signed a great project and the company didn't support it?

L: Seems like everything I was involved it got little or no support at the time. Even when something looked like it was going to happen, Catholic Girls, Chubby Checker, Grass Roots, or the Artimus Pyle Band, someone threw a monkey wrench into the machine.

R: Maybe they didn't like you. (Laughs) I know Gene didn't like me. Our problem was we knew something about what we were talking about (laughs).

L: The only real success's that they could not stop were "The Rossington Collins Band" and "Gold and Platinum" even though they tried.

R: Hey did I tell you Leon Russell played the Little Theater last weekend?

L: How was ol' Leon?

R: Better than great. Just sensational and what a band. He kicked some serious ass.

L: You remember Shelter In The Delta?

R: 1974, Memphis. I remember it, what a party.

L: It was at The Great American Music Hall.

R: A place I worked during my stand up days.

L: Yeah, I saw your act, good thing you found another career, just kidding.

R: I did well down South. I played The Exit Inn in Nashville too. I know that was one of your old stomping grounds, but back to Shelter.

L: Leon owned Shelter Records and we distributed and promoted his releases. Shelter in the Delta was a showcase for the MCA Brass and Promotion Department. It seemed like an all night party with every act on the label, JJ Cale, Mary McCreary, the O'Neal Twins & the Gap Band Performing. What a party! It was one of the greatest gigs I every attended. Plus, it was the first time that you and I ever met face to face. You realize that that meeting has led to a friendship that has lasted for over 30 years?

R: Its all Leon Russell's fault. (Laughs) nuff' said. They literally locked us in there for the night. They fed us ribs and booze and every band on the label played for us. It was insane.

L: Not to mention that later that night Lenny Konofsky & Jon Scott took us to some joint where Jerry Lee Lewis was playing. I think that's where I had my black out. All I remember is waking up the next morning back in my room.

R: It was raining. It was like 2AM in Memphis on a Saturday night. Lenny and I are outside this roadhouse, Jerry Lee Lewis is in there kicking ass, you and Scott were in there, we couldn't get in (laughs) I don't remember why not. By the way, this was two days before I officially started working for the company. (Laughs) Welcome to MCA. Also that was before Shelter had Phoebe Snow. Didn't she sue them or something?

L: Actually, she was trying to get out of her contract with Shelter. We worked our butts off getting "Poetry Man" airplay and a spot in the top 10. To thank Shelter and MCA she wants to jump ship and go to Columbia Records. In essence she and her management company were saying "Fuck you very much for breaking Phoebe Snow. We don't need your help any more." Yeah, now you're a memory that no one remembers except us of course.

R: I remember when she was so hot with "Poetry Man" and she was at the Bottom Line. I invited all kinds of radio people and all, but I was forbidden to talk to her due to the lawsuit. I ran into her 30 years later at CBGB's and told her about it. She had no idea that we were told not to talk to her back then or so she claimed, nice lady.

L: My favorite act on Shelter was the Dwight Twilly Band. The first time I heard the single "I'm On Fire" I was sold. What a great song! I'm proud to say that my market, Florida, was one of the first to be wrapped up with radio airplay. The only exception was WQAM - AM and they only played records when the reached the top ten nationally. Sort of like WABC in New York.

R: Sorry, I never got that one on ABC, but weren't you tight with Denny Cordell, the president of Shelter?

L: I don't know if tight is the word for it. I was more or less his off track betting source. OK, I was his bookie. There, I said it.

R: A career you probably should have stuck with.

L: As the events go, I was becoming fairly popular around the Shelter offices and with their head of promotion, Linda Alter. I could do no wrong, as I was able to generate airplay on just about all their artists. One day I'm at my Miami office and I get a call from Denny. First off he thanks me for all that I've done to help move Shelter along and then he asks me if I ever go to the dog track in Hialeah. Hell, I lived in Hialeah at the time, but never went to the track. Anyway, to make a long story short, it seems Denny owned some racing Greyhounds that raced at there, He asked me if it would be ok for him to call from time to time in order to place bets on his dogs. I told him sure, and then it began. Next thing I know, about three times a week Denny would call in a bet and I would run over to the track and put the money down. I can honestly say that his dogs were just that, dogs. None of them ever won anything. Denny would always send me payment for the money I put out in tickets purchased at the track faithfully. One day I get his call and he asks me go to the track and place a bet. Well, one thing led to another after work and I was unable to make the trek over to the track. Little did I know, until the next morning when I received a call from Denny that his dog won! Holy shit, I thought what am I gonna do? What could I do? Here was the President of Shelter Records on the phone wanting to know if I had the money to send to him. I told him that I needed to go to the track and collect and that I would send him payment ASAP. He said, that I should keep 20% for doing the running and that I should share in the profits. Little did he know at that time or until today that I never placed the bet and that the winnings came out of my pocket.

R: Sounds like an old Captain Lou Albano, Joe Piscopo picture. Anyway before we wrap this session up I wanted to mention, you know, I love Garth Brooks, and way back then you were the guy who turned me on to him, "Friends in Low Places,' remember?

L: Yeah, I sent you a CD.

R: Well an act played at The Little Theater, where I MC, they've been around for 30 years, Aztec Two Step.

L: A duo like Simon and Garfunkel.

R: Same act, same great harmonies, same talent minus Paul Simon's songwriting though.

L: I've never been a big Paul Simon fan. Best shit he ever did was with Art Garfunkel. You can take that song Kodachrome and shove it.

R: I know what you mean, but he had some great ones, "Still Crazy After All These Years," "Slip Sliding Away,' but anyway Aztec has doesn't come up with a song on their album "Days Of Horses' called "Tonight I Wish I Was In Texas." It is hands down the best song ever written about Texas. This could be Garth Brooks come back single.

Listen: Tonight I Wish I Was in Texas - Aztec Two Step

L: You think he's coming back?

R: You read it here first. He will be back, but in the meantime check out this album and song. It is brilliant. Aztec themselves could have a hit with it if it were promoted properly. Willie Nelson could have a field day with this tune as well. It's a killer!

L: If you say so. I'll check it out.

R: Hey we didn't get to talk too much about The Who. We got sidetracked with all this.

L: Who knew?

R: Right, Who's next.